Friday, October 15, 2010

Jane Leade - Questions and Answers

Joseph Herrin (10-15-2010)

Yesterday’s post on Jane Leade has led to some writing and sharing some excellent concerns and comments regarding her teaching. Many sincere questions were asked by brothers and sisters who seek to walk in truth. I believe it will be helpful to many others to read both the questions and the answers to them. I have not given the names of those who have written to protect their privacy. I have also edited out portions of the correspondence so as to avoid side issues.

My dear brother Joseph:

I just received your parablesblog regarding some purported writings that you intimate as having some "freemason" connection or some type of "leaven" added to some of her writings.  I'm not sure where you obtained these from, Joseph.  But in case you have been given other supposed writing that "say" that Jane Lead's writings that you mentioned in your current parablesblog entitled "Jane Leade-Examining All Things" are mixed with 'wheat and some leaven,' perhaps you could go to her web site that WARNS  of other individuals  taking her originals manuscripts and have passed them off as being "authentic versions"--when in fact, they may not be. 

If you Google: "Jane Lead," you will see several listings, Joseph. Go to the one that says:  Jane Lead: 17th Century Prophetess of God; Authentic On-Line Manuscripts".  Once inside, Joseph, you can see for yourself what are the writings that she has written.  I was there and found no such writings that have a Mr. Hodges attached to them.  I found no manuscript that was dated 1619, either, when clicking on the Bibliography tag.  There is, however, a very clear WARNING about "Counterfeit, edited, version of her writings.”

I am not sure where this sister in Christ obtained her version, Joseph, but I truly hope that you just check out this information I am passing along to you, to see if it lines up with those writings that were passed on to you, my dear brother...

I just hope that what you have released is not from some of the resources that Jane Lead's website cautions and warns about;  This type of false information being released in her name--no doubt--could be the act of Satan and his objective in misleading the Father's sons and daughters away from the "authentic" revelation that was given to Jane by the Father, to bring his chosen ones into His fold. 

I believe, Joseph--that I was led to find and discover her revelation--which came, by the way, from one of your earlier parablesblogs last year, I believe.  Well--once reading and delving into her writngs---I have discovered some very deep and profound teachings that the Father has intended I come to know and understand;  That the "Manchild"/Revelation 12 is found as far back as 330 years ago and that Jane Lead spoke of it in her terms--is --for me, Joseph, quite amazing!  Especially, now that we are coming into the time that the "Manchild Company" is about to be revealed and manifested in His saints--is also planned by our beloved Father--and I find that so amazing, as well.

Please let me know what you have found, my brother.  I am waiting to hear your blessed thoughts on this matter.

All my blessings to you, Joseph.  I look forward to us meeting in His presence, soon!

Your brother in Christ,
Name Withheld


Note: I did go the website the brother spoke of. It can be found here:

http://www.iinet.com/~passtheword/Jane-Lead/

Dear Brother,

Thank you for writing and sharing your concerns with me. I can understand that having been encouraged and enlightened through some of the writings of Jane Leade that you might find it disturbing to read another's comments regarding the presence of serious error.

I began the writing yesterday by acknowledging that she has written some things that are truth. As you, I also believe in... the man child company. I did not come to these truths through Jane Leade, but I have found that she also held to them. Indeed, that she did embrace these things was partly why I found her 1679 prophecy so compelling.

I went to the site you referenced, and every one of the writings of Jane Leade that I referenced is listed there. The main article I was commenting on regarding the 8 worlds to which men go when they die can be found under the name "The Wonders of God's Creation." You will also find listed "The Laws of Paradise." The article that is listed as 1619 is commonly found on the Internet, but it is titled this way due to the way the number 1 and the number 7 were written. They appeared very similar, and the title should actually say 1679, rather than 1619. You will find this listed on the same site under the title Sixty Propositions.

I encourage you to read through these writings yourself. You can then verify that the things I have reported are truly her own comments. There are some who have put out versions of her writings in modern English. I was quoting in some places from one such work. However, I also had her original, and I had compared the original to the updated version and found that the original meaning had not been changed. The editor had done an excellent job of remaining true to Jane Leade's original words.

As you check out these things, consider the points that I have shared.

•    There is much extra-Biblical language employed that is also commonly used among Kabbalists and other occult groups.
•    Jane Leade declares that her revelations are to be given the same weight as the Old and New Testament.
•    Jane Leade claims she is a chosen vessel through which the mysteries of God are to be revealed, and that people should be careful of criticizing her revelations.
•    In stating these things she magnifies her position and discourages the saints from fulfilling the command of the apostles to "examine all things carefully, and cling to that which is good."
•    She states that God will send spirit guides that are not the Holy Spirit to lead people into the deeper mysteries of His kingdom.
•    She claimed to be able to visit the realms to which the dead go and to find and converse with people there.
•    Her expressed method of growing spiritually was contrary to the path manifested in the life and teachings of Christ and the apostles. She believed that meditation and the exercise of the imagination were the keys to entering into the deeper things, while Christ and the apostles gave forth a pattern of an active life of faith and obedience that centered around a cross that each disciple must bear. It is these experiences of suffering which the Holy Spirit lead us to that work effectually to conform us to the image of Christ.

May you be blessed with peace and understanding in these days,

Joseph Herrin

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Dear Joseph,

Thank you for your assessment of Jane Leade’s writings. There is much to ponder in both your writings. You commented on Ms. Leade’s ability to “enter the upper regions”:

“Ms. Leade claimed to have the ability to enter the upper regions of the heavens at will, and to go where she wanted. She was in this way enabled to meet with her friend who had died. Such claims are contrary to sound doctrine, and all the experience of the apostles and prophets.”

Even the apostle Paul was “taken up into heaven…,” but did not know whether this was in body or in spirit. Is it not written that Melchisedek, who was taken up into heaven before he saw death, will “judge the people” alongside God? Which of us is able to judge who God chooses to give this privilege to? The Mystery is too great and too wise for us to totally discern. We see “through a glass, darkly….”

Since Ms. Leade’s writings pre-date the Freemasons and Kabbalists, so wouldn’t it seem probable that instead of Ms. Leade identifying with them that the Freemasons and Kabbalists took a perfectly spiritual matter and corrupted it with evil, and Ms. Leade uses them in the context in which they were meant to be used? Agreeably, the Jews of old used them, but they were, after all, extremely connected to the spiritual world, good and evil. Is there any indication that Kabbal wasn’t used for good by the Jews prior to Christ? Is there any proof to the contrary?

I was impressed by your analysis, on your website, of the murder of the scriptures down through the ages by various translators, and thus have been very conscious not to hinge spiritual matters on things in scripture that are not within the framework of salvation, justification and ultimate redemption.

Ms Leade stated that, “These Still Eternity Spirits are most qualified to open the Depths of Life and Truth which lie far deeper than Nature or the Creature; being brought forth even before the Elements. They are for the New Creation of the Inhabitants of the several worlds.”

Knowing that scripture has been mutilated, and we know that we will be rewarded by our fruits, isn’t it entirely probable that those whose reward, shall we say, “by the skin of their teeth,” is merely Eternal life, but on another planet, serving God in the heavenly realms; and in His presence, since He is omnipresent?

It just seems inappropriate to judge everything by our knowledge, especially knowledge that has been so defiled by this current age. You have said many times that we are terribly affected by our modern age. How much more pure could someone be, like Ms. Leade, who spent her entire like in an age of little distraction, and in total the pursuit of God (in a monk-like environment)? Is it appropriate to discount that she could have had revelations far beyond what we could even imagine or hope for?

Since discovering and pondering Ephesians 3:10, it is impossible for me to imagine that anyone can say with any certainly that they “know” the full meaning of the Mystery. Who are “…the rulers and authorities in the heavenly realms…”? They are spoken of as those who have been there since before time began. Does it include Melchisedek? We just cannot know. And there is too much we do not know to be of any certainty about anything except our salvation; which we all must work out in fear and trembling.

None of us can be so proud to believe that we are able to discern all things.

Yours in Christ Jesus,
Name Withheld


Note: In reviewing this letter I realized that I did not answer his point on the date of origin of Kabbalah and Freemasonry. Many date Kabbalah to the first century A.D.. It has certainly been around in various forms much longer than Jane Leade’s writings. Both Kabbalah and Freemasonry have numerous elements that are traceable back to ancient Babylonian mystery religions. A reading of Alexander Hislop’s book The Two Babylons will reveal much of the origin of both. Seeing that Satan is the original author of all lies and deception it must be admitted that these things pre-date the 17th century in which Jane Leade lived and wrote.

Dear Brother,

Thank you for writing and sharing these thoughts with me. Certainly there are many mysteries yet to be opened to the saints, and we should not despise prophetic utterances. Yet we are commanded to "examine all things carefully and to cling to that which is good." One must ask, "By what means are we to examine all things?"

I believe the answer is given in that word of God which we have received.

Acts 17:10-11
And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews. These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

II Timothy 3:16-17
All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.

We are commanded to "Study to show ourselves approved, a workman that need not be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of God."

It is true that there are corruptions in our present English translations of the Scriptures. This requires that we study more diligently, looking to the Greek and Hebrew from which the translators worked to see if they rendered things appropriately. Our Father has not left us without a witness, and it would be a very harmful thing to conclude that the Scriptures cannot be relied upon at all, or to discount them if we should come across someone who is teaching something contrary. We would then have no means of testing the things we are encountering as prophecy.

Jane Leade magnifies her own calling by stating that her revelations come from the pure source of the eternal God. She does a disservice to others by discouraging them from testing these things. When she contends that the Scriptures have nothing in them by which to prove her revelations, she places all upon very uncertain ground. The saints should be all the more cautious when someone makes the claims she has done.

Would you not be suspicious today if a man claimed new revelation; If he claimed to be a specially chosen vessel to speak forth new volumes of the Scriptures; if he said that his teachings could not be verified in the Bible, but were to be given the same weight as the Bible itself? These are the claims of Jane Leade, and I find myself unable to accept them.

I have not denied that Jane Leade has written many things that are true. It is the presence of leaven, serious distortions of truth which lead away from an emphasis of the Holy Spirit and the Scriptures, that most concerns me. She would diminish the Scriptures to emphasize her revelations. She would diminish the Spirit to emphasize spirit guides.

This is not sound, and it will surely lead those who accept such things to be open to lying spirits and great deception. I would spare the people of God this trouble. I do not doubt that the timing of my finding a snake skin in the bus I am working on (body by Carpenter), and one under the bus, is pertinent to this discussion. Yahweh would reveal the presence of the enemy that we might seek diligently to discern his presence and avoid the poison with which he would destroy Yahweh's people.
 
May you be blessed with peace and understanding in these days,

Joseph Herrin

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Mr. Herrin,

I just wanted to drop you a line and say 'Amen!' on your parablesblog today.  I wrote to you recently concerning the "Gideon final test" that I believe the Spirit of the Lord is emphasizing in this late hour, and your writing today is just one more confirmation.  The last culling down of the overcomers is a test of discernment and love of Truth, as the 9700 men of Gideon's army who did not remain on guard with sword at the ready, were not selected.  Only a very small 3% of the 10,000 overcomers (those who overcame fear) were discerning --in that they were not deceived by their own reflection.  Cabala is an obvious example of self-deception-- One in which the subtle message is one based on pride... (in or about oneself, or one's 'chosenness').

Anyway-- bless you!  Your work for the Lord is surely to be sowing a great reward.  I have been blessed by them...

We are praying for you also, that your ribs will heal up.  Have you considered the Lord is speaking something there?  I only ask because it seems the Lord has brought this very same injury upon people I know over and over again.   Is it just coincidence that you are the 5th person in the last 6 to 8 weeks that I know has had a rib injury?  I don't know, but it is strange. Just two of them are that my husband slipped on his step-side truck and injured his ribs, and within a week, my son also injured his in a totally unrelated fall.  I don't know, but perhaps this prompts further study -- After all the bride of the first Adam did come from 'bone of his bone' (his rib)--- even as the bride of Christ is and will.

Blessings,
Name Withheld


Dear Sister,

Thank you for writing and sharing these affirming thoughts. I was much encouraged by them.

Regarding the rib injury, I am persuaded that there is a message in this, and I have pondered whether it was related to the recent writings by Jane Leade that I have just posted on. These writings came to me at the time of my injury, and because I was not able to work on the bus, I was afforded the time to read these writings, and to discern that which I shared.

Also, just before this, (the day I injured my ribs), I removed a snake skin from inside the bus, and one under the bus. This appears to be a parable indicating the presence of the evil one, though his actual location was hidden. One could see the tell-tale signs of His presence, but would need to be alert and wary.

That the woman was taken from Adam's side, and she was enticed by the allure of knowledge she was told had been withheld from her, does line up with what I have discerned about Jane Leade. The allure of hidden knowledge led both Eve and Jane Leade (I believe) to overturn Yahweh's governmental order. Rather than being Adam's (man's) helpmate, she usurped his position, being deceived, and the result was death.

This injury to man came from his ribs, and it is to be guarded against.

I Timothy 2:12-14
But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet. For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve. And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being quite deceived, fell into transgression.

It would be a great anomaly for Jane Leade to be the author of "new volumes" of Scripture. There are no Scriptures in either the Old or New Testaments that were written by women. The Father has always abided by His governmental order in this area. Woman was not given to be man's teacher.

I have stated in other writings that it is very arguable that there were women among Christ's followers who were just as devoted, and faithful as the men whom He chose to be disciples. Yet none of them were appointed to any position to lead men.

We know that Christ was not one who put social convention above the will of the Father. It is therefore evident that it was not societal norms that prevented Christ from ordaining women to positions of teaching and leadership. Rather, it was the governmental order established by His Father.

I Corinthians 11:3
But I want you to understand that Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of woman, and God is the head of Christ.

I Timothy 2:11
Let a woman quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness.

Though the church has departed from these things, and argues that they were merely societal traditions, the apostles ALWAYS alluded back to the creation order when speaking of these things. This is to set things upon the ground of Yahweh's divine purpose, rather than the vagaries of human society.

I Corinthians 11:8-9
For man does not originate from woman, but woman from man; for indeed man was not created for the woman's sake, but woman for the man's sake.

I Timothy 2:13
For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve.

I do thank you for inquiring about the meaning of this rib injury. All things bear meaning in our lives, though we must often wait patiently upon the Father to discern them...
 
May you be blessed with peace and understanding in these days,

Joseph Herrin


Final Note: The Father does truly order our steps. That I discovered the snake skins in the bus (body by Carpenter), and received an injury to my ribs the same day, I believe are related. Woman was taken from man's side, and fashioned to be his helpmate. In my travels across this nation recently one of the most common problems I encountered was homes that are out of order. Men had abdicated their role as spiritual leader in the home, and women had stepped in.

We must always discern what our own calling and purpose is before the Father. We are not able to fulfill a role that the Father has not given to us. We will find ourselves striving in our own strength, rather than operating under the anointing and protection of the Holy Spirit.

Truly, the church, and individual saints, have received great injury by deviating from the governmental order established by Yahweh. This is a subject too large to address in a single post. If there are any men, or women, who have questions or objections regarding the matter of divine government and its application to the saints today, I encourage them to read the book Sarah's Children which is freely available on the Heart4God website:

 http://www.heart4god.ws/id242.htm


Heart4God Website: http://www.heart4god.ws  

Parables Blog: www.parablesblog.blogspot.com  

Mailing Address:
Joseph Herrin
P.O. Box 804
Montezuma, GA 31063

3 comments:

Anonymous said...

Could we please move on to the big"now" news of the chile miners being resuced...whats your insight to all what happen Joseph?
There has got to be prophetic insights into all what happened...
Whats up?

Joseph Herrin said...

Regarding the Chilean miners (one Bolivian among them) I have not been led of the Spirit to focus on this of late. Undoubtedly there is a message in it, but the Father has me focused on other things at this season.

It was back to work on the bus conversion today. Perhaps tomorrow as I am working I will ask the Father if He has anything to reveal to me on the Chilean miners.

Mark said...

Glad you are feeling better Bro. Herrin! God Bless!